Hoisting a Section of a List
Hoisting a Section of a List
The ability to hoist a segment of a list is wonderful - and no where would it be more welcome than on our mobile devices. Can anyone recommend a "trick" or workaround to facilitate doing something like this?
I tried sending a URL for the hoisted segment to my phone, and it works... sort of. I can view the normal website on the phone, and then zoom in until I can read it. Not so easy, and far from ideal. One can read it, but not do anything, such as checking off an item.
The mobile app is nice, but currently limited. Any suggestions?
I know I can export a subset of a list, and create an entirely new list... but that seems a little elaborate, with too much overhead.
The ability to hoist a segment of a list is wonderful - and no where would it be more welcome than on our mobile devices. Can anyone recommend a "trick" or workaround to facilitate doing something like this?
I tried sending a URL for the hoisted segment to my phone, and it works... sort of. I can view the normal website on the phone, and then zoom in until I can read it. Not so easy, and far from ideal. One can read it, but not do anything, such as checking off an item.
The mobile app is nice, but currently limited. Any suggestions?
I know I can export a subset of a list, and create an entirely new list... but that seems a little elaborate, with too much overhead.
Whenever I or any of my team members tries to do pretty much anything on a mobile device in CheckVist, we wind up moving elements around (due to swiping), or marking stuff randomly closed. So I've forbidden anyone from ever viewing any of our lists on a mobile device. But, hey, your mileage may vary...
ReplyDeleteKirill Maximov , while Jim Leff has not yet responded to you question, I feel quite certain that he is referring to http://m.checkvist.com . I try to use a grocery list via my phone using this, and it can be a disaster.
ReplyDeletePerhaps you can recommend a usable alternative for the moment? I would be happy to use another app on my phone for such purposes, assuming I can export some Checkvist list, such as a shopping list, easily import it into this other app (for android), and conveniently use it. I've been trying to figure this out on my own, but I have not had much luck thus far. There are lots of android apps, but an easy import of something which Checkvist will export... and this would probably be done on a desktop machine, so there must be a web version as well...
Any recommendations? What do YOU use?
I didn't respond because I'm flabbergasted.
ReplyDeleteKirill, try using your own app on a mobile device For like 20 seconds.. Even just scroll around. It's impossible to do so without moving stuff, completing stuff, and deleting stuff. I'ts not a "bug", it's poor design. Its' design that sounds good on paper but doesn't work in the real world. Which means you're not using it in your real world work. And that's fatal.
Similarly, try collaborating on your own app (mobile or not) with a team. See how long you can go without being infuriated by the lack of logging, the lack of auto signatures, and the inability to revert changes.
Simply putting the app out there and waiting for customers to complain (wait, not complain....VOTE. I tried to complain, and was told to put my objection to a vote) doesn't work. If you don't use it, it will be forever a pretty toy. Driving customers insane and making them queue up to fight it out is not quality control.
One day someone will build a competent online outlining tool, and we'll all leave. As-is, we're all learning to work around the craziness.
Jim, if you're working by yourself, go to Omni Outliner or The Hit List ASAP and don't look back. Both offer auto-synching of different devices. I'm just here because CheckVist is the only collaborative online outlining tool that works at all.
ReplyDeleteOmni Outliner has tons of features, and The Hit List is elegant and fun to use.
Jim Leff , thanks! They look good, only... I'm not a Mac or ios user. Everything at work is PC, and I'm android for my phone.
ReplyDeleteOuch, sorry. There are many places to go to get software reccos, though. Consider ask.metafilter.com (must join first).
ReplyDeleteJim Leff, just to follow up on this... for now it looks as if I will export a list from Checkvist as plain text, copy and paste it (or some portion of it) into Google Tasks using the Chrome extension, "Better Google Tasks".
ReplyDeleteThis extension is paired with the Android App GTasks. Both the extension and the app are enhanced interface versions of Google Tasks.
We'll see how it goes. So far, so good, syncing seems very quick and easy.
Jim Leff Sorry that caused so negative emotions.
ReplyDeleteCheckvist wasn't targeted for mobile market at all (the wasn't such a market when we started working on it). And its main focus always was work on the desktop, with keyboard.
We're trying to build a mobile version, though it is a side project and we don't have much resources. Sorry if my concise answer sounded rude.
You say tool is unusable and tell us that mobile version can "move stuff", "delete stuff". Without any details on which site do you use, which device/OS you use. I just tried to get the first clue to reproduce such terrible problems. Accidental moving was a problem on iOS, but on the recent iOS version it works OK. There is such a problem on mobile Firefox - and I haven't found a solution yet there. Devil is in the details.
You say that if we'd use Checkvist we'd notice this - we do use it, but mainly on desktop. On mobile we use it less - and most likely our use patterns are different from yours. For us, it is usable. There are problems and missing features, but we're working on it.
Currently we're adding 'delete' operation to the mobile interface and trying to make UI fixes to improve overall behaviour.
> One day someone will build a competent online outlining tool,
> and we'll all leave.
Really wish you to find a tool of your dream. In the meanwhile, we'll try to improve ours, with or without your help.
Sorry again.
Jim McGuire I'm glad you found a solution which works for you. Could you please explain why exporting a sublist is too much overhead - this is just one shortcut? Or you do this operation often?
ReplyDeleteThere are tons of applications which could be used to view lists on Android, I'd recommend to take a look at Quip and Todoist at least. You can also create a note in Evernote from the Checkvist's text export.
Back to Checkvist, search/hoist/due are the most important features we'd like to add after the delete. Not sure which one we'll add next - that's why I asked to vote.
Kirill Maximov, in my frustration, I overstated the problem with exporting a sublist.
ReplyDeleteYou are correct, it's not difficult at all! But it would still leave me with a list - if left in Checkvist - which is difficult to deal with on my phone. The fact is, I am doing just this, exporting a list or sublist, and importing to Google Tasks.
Thanks for your clear reading of my post, and understanding.
Regarding your suggestions -
Evernote: I have always wanted to like it, but can't seem to find that it works well for me. It seems that the syncing can be a little spotty.
Todoist is nice, but I can't see a good way of importing this exported checklist to Todoist on the desktop.
Quip is very impressive. It has been a "contender" for an app which I should use regularly. On your suggestion, I will take a look at it again. It appears that I can easily import a checklist, and just paste my exported Checkvist data into it. Nice!
Thanks, Kirill Maximov !
Kirill, you seem like a lovely guy. I wish I could share your hallucination that I'm having a specific problem with a specific device with your product, and that I'm feeling emotional and rude because you asked me for a simple, reasonable bug report.
ReplyDeleteI don't know if you're old enough to remember Vista, an OS that was unbelievably dysfunctional and caused great misery among a lot of people. If you used Vista for 10 minutes, you instantly recognized that no one at Microsoft had actually used Vista for 10 minutes. The engineers simply created features to spec, and tested those individual features to ensure they were to spec, but nobody ever actually used the software in a real-world way.
Checkvist, on mobile devices, is Vista (regardless of whether you use the regular or mobile sites). It's not a question of bugs. It's not about me and my devices. It simply doesn't work effectively. It's designed and implemented in a way that allows you to say you delivered a feature. It's not designed to work....and you apparently haven't noticed. This is what happens when engineers don't use their own products.
Same for collaboration tools. You've added enough so you can market it as a collaborative product. But that's not the reality. And if you ever tried to collaborate, you'd see it. You don't need bug reports. You don't need votes. You don't need anything but to use your own software with collaborative teams. Seriously, 10 minutes would be sufficient.
CheckVist works really really well - maybe even beautifully - for the use case that you yourself use it for: one person, working on a computer. It's an excellent product, and very well thought-out and executed! That's what happens when engineers use their own software. CheckVist is a perfect illustration of the difference of designing for actual use versus designing to add features for marketing purposes. This software is both those things, and that's why it's both terrific and horrible (depending on how close one's use of it resembles the actual use of the engineers).
I hope what I'm saying is clearer this time, and you don't read it as "negative emotion". USE YOUR SOFTWARE. In all use cases you've designed it for. Don't test features...USE the features (in an organic way). Then you won't need my bug report, and you won't need to curate elaborate voting systems. You'll know (like Vista's engineers should have known) what needs fixing.
Jim, I don't really care about what you think about me. If you think I have a hallucination - I can respond with the same - looks like you have a hallucination that I'm not using Checkvist and we don't have hundreds of customers who use Checkvist for years and find it useful.
ReplyDeleteIf your message is "use your software and look for problems/bugs yourself" - thanks, I got it.
If this approach works for you, it doesn't work for everyone, and I don't want to argue about it. Sorry.
Best,
You should probably delete that. Looks bad in public, and doesn't really bother me. I was honestly trying to help (most customers just leave; very few take time to state their dissatisfaction), but you're not grokking me, nor are you trying very hard. If you think I'm saying you never use CheckVist, you aren't reading carefully.
ReplyDeleteAlso: you should have more than hundreds of customers The reason your present customers is happy is that unhappy customers get repelled (normally, they don't say why; they just leave). Those who remain are those whose workflows are immune to the software's downsides. If you fixed those downsides, you'd serve thousands or tens of thousands. But you won't fix anything with the assumption that everything's fine and that frustrated customers are edge cases.
But maybe you're not trying to serve a broader userbase, and you're happy with the business as-is. If so, I apologize for upsetting you. I have nothing to gain from doing so, or from the hour or so I've spent trying to offer my feedback. Just trying to help. Good luck.
Jim Leff Probably it is my problem, but your way of helping did upset me, sorry. Good luck to you.
ReplyDeleteGood luck to you, too. Again, CheckVist is amazingly good at what it's good at. A lot of love, care, and skill clearly went into it.
ReplyDelete